Autonerdz forums

Hi guys,
I was just wondering if the COP probe (PP338) can do everything that
using the COP extension leads could do or are there some applications that require the leads?

We have the probe but I have yet to use it on a cartridge type coil pack, can these be tested with the probe for individual cylinders?

Thanks

Dan

Anyone else try experimenting with the Snap on flags? (multicylinder secondary ignition scope adapters, EAC0056L00A, ...L02A, ...L03A).  We've had some success.  These pictures are from an 07 Dodge 2.0.  The 4 snap on flags are on the 4 cop units on channel a, and the pico probe is on the cop for cylinder #1.  They daisy chain, with flags of 3 and 1 available, giving coverage for 4, 6, and 8 cylinder engines.  As we continueto play we will try to get some scales setup to have relative firing voltages.  They are pretty similar to the picture from the pico.

ideas/suggestions/comments?

john and mike

Tom,

Quote:


Sorry if I've already asked (and forgot), but do you have a waveform to show how well this works with GM COP systems? Let's say... a 2002-2007 Envoy?

Thanks

Tom,
Thanks for the info, so for coils with the drivers inside the ecu you can backprobe the coil multiplug using an attenuator and view the waveform as you would with a secondary clip on probe?

Is there a way to work out if they are externally driven or is it just a case of probing it?Although that wouldn't help on a non starter!

I couldn't view the CNP link so I assume it's in the Picogroup area?

Thanks for your help

Dan

Hi Dan,

Quote:


Yes, you can view the primary voltage which, of course, will give you the same spark line information you would get from the secondary.

Quote:


There is no substitute for the systems description and accurate diagrams.  Using a lab scope becomes more difficult without the vehicle information.  Factory information as found in a system like Alldata is invaluable. 

Quote:


Yes it is. 

Jim

Sorry, normally we see one of these every day, until we want to get a pattern!

We have had very good luck with the pico probe, and the snap on flags, on most cars.  But it seems the GM 4.2 is not one of them!

This picture is from an 04 Envoy 4.2.  The vehicle was not in for engine work at all, the right rear caliper was hung up. So we hooked up real quick to get this for you.

We took all measurements off number 5, it is the only one you can reach easily without removing anything.

Channel A is the pico probe.  We tried the snap on flag on B, but didn't have much luck, so we didn't keep going with it. C is coil amps for that coil only, and D is control voltage from the pcm, again for that coil only.

Mike was up in the vehicle moving the probe around.  He will post shortly on where he got the best pattern, the file has a lot of dropouts as he moved around.  I, being much less young, was on the ground running the scope.

The file is too big to post here, even saving "current waveform only" so we have posted it on the io site, "chevycop1".

john  

john racic wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2009 at 6:48pm:


Thanks for posting this.......

Bob

Earl

Yes, that's the stick.

There are also flags, that can hook together

There's a one flag, a two flag, and a three flag

All four itmes listed here:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?tool=all&SUB_Cat_ID=3058619&SUB_Cat_NAM...

The 2 flag is a new item, that we can see no use for at all.

The flag sets daisy chain together, like christmas tree lights, so with 2 3-flags and 2 1-flags you can do almost anything (except of course 10 cylinder engines.)  that combination gets you 3, 4, 5, 6, and 8 cylinders.

The flags are more versatile, but more of a pain in the butt, since they don't really clip to anything.  we use masking tape to hold the stuff in place at times.  the stick you just hold over the top of the coil packs, all 3 or 4 (of course depending on your application, we do use it on 1 bank of a V6)) and you've got your pattern.

The stick comes in very handy on the cars that use three coils on the plugs on one bank, and three wires running to the other bank.

To make a strong point, these do NOT work on all cars.  We also have the Pico secondary COP probe, and have compared the 2 systems.  Some vehicles, like the above mentioned GM 4.2 simply must be too well shielded for either set to work.  But we have had very good luck with the Chrysler applications, and VW.  For us when one system does not work, the other one does not either.    

Either system does not, like almost all secondary pickups, give accurate voltage readings.  But they both do what they are supposed to do, so you in a very short period of time you know whether or not you have a secondary problem, and which cylinder.

To use these snap on systems you need an adapter.  You need female rca to bnc.  We use the same adapters we use for the chassis ears.  Then you can use the bnc to bannana adpters that comes with the pico set, and that Tom sells.  Or you could use dedicated bnc to bnc cables, and the bnc to rca adapter.

Any further questions feel fre to ask and we will do our best to answer

john